Part 1: Stats | Part 2: Abilities | Part 3: Talents | Part 4: Artifacts and Miscellaneous
Class Development Post: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20759151255#1
Part 3: Talents
Tier 1: Damage/Healing
This tier is one of the talent tiers that require very little changes. Some additional flavor could be added, such as making Chi Burst an instant cast, allowing Eye of the Tiger to be on multiple targets, or some way for Chi Wave to continue to bounce through keeping up the Mastery bonus. However, I think the biggest thing that could be done for this tier is to take Chi Orbit and move it into the spot where Eye of the Tiger exists currently. This keeps with the “Chi” motif of this tier, as well as provide a passive damage talent. The orb explosions could have small range heal added to it, similar to the other talents.
This would give Chi Wave as the controllable single target, Chi Burst as the controllable AOE, and Chi Orbit as the passive choice.
Tier 2: Movement
This tier is perfect, make no changes.
Tier 3: Resources
Contrary to what it may have seemed like, this tier is the one that was the least flexible all expansion. The dominance of Energizing Elixir is something that was pointed out very early in the Alpha/Beta process. The fact that it can generate nearly a dozen Chi worth of resources per minute, when the next best option maxes out 4, is INSANE. Futher, Ascension was nerfed during the Alpha/Beta phase from 15% down to 10% when, at the time, it was no where near being considered as a useful talent.
The biggest thing that can be done to help balance this tier is to reduce the resource gain from Energizing Elixir. If it were to simple refill our Energy, it would provide 4 Chi worth of resources (100 energy if Inner Peace is gone) on demand. This would balance with Power Strikes providing 4 Chi, but without as much control. It could also be changed to simply provide maximum Chi, which would mean 5 Chi, on demand, every minute. Either of these changes would allow Energizing Elixir to be more balanced with the rest of the tier, and significantly easier for players to use, rather than just resigning yourself to wasting some of the resources it provides. Since its “Energizing” Elixir, I think having it fill out energy would be the best choice.
Ascension would likely need to be buffed back from 10% to 15% to be considered.
Tier 4: Crowd Control
This tier is just fine, no changes.
Tier 5: Defensives
This tier is also perfect, although the defensives could use to be buffed to narrow the gap between what some other classes (see: Rogues) have.
Tier 6: Damage
For much of the expansion, this tier has been dominated by Hit Combo, with Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger having a very small stint being useful in very specific situations. Rushing Jade Wind has always seemed like it has potential, but that potential was never realized, even seeing its usefulness nerfed when it wasn’t useful at all. The main problem with this tier is that the way that Hit Combo is designed, it will either be the run away favorite, or never used.
To solve this, I resubmit my suggestion to combine Hit Combo with our Mastery from my Stats Wishlist. This would then free up a slot in this tier for something useful. Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger fits a sustained single target or cleave niche, Rushing Jade Wind can be buffed to provide Mark of the Crane stacks in a much more efficient way, which I pointed out as a problem previously, with increased damage for sustained AOE, and the new ability can be designed for burst single target. As an outside suggestion, not necessarily one I’d prefer, Touch of Death, combined with Gale Burst, as I suggested in my Ability Wishlist, could be made into a talent to replace Hit Combo, giving Windwalkers a strong burst single target talent when needed without Blizzard needing to design something new for that slot.
Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger could be made into a permanent guardian when talented. I know I’d certainly go get myself a XuFu to match, but Windwalkers don’t really need one more thing to manage.
Tier 7: Damage
This tier hasn’t been without its issues, seemingly going back and forth between whether Whirling Dragon Punch or Serenity is the best talent, with Chi Orbit pretty much being useless all the time. The big thing that this tier needs is direction. Whirling Dragon Punch is seemingly designed to fill the role of sustained AOE, with Serenity appearing to focus more on burst damage, and Chi Orbit being focused on looking cool when in town or giving a talent for Soul of the Grandmaster to use.
If Whirling Dragon Punch is going to stick with the role of sustained AOE, then its likely that its damage should be improved a smidge, although mechanically it should remain the same. Serenity as a burst AOE/single target cooldown works just fine, although it would be nice to have the CD reduction back to snapshotting as that felt like the way it was supposed to be before it was “fixed”.
This leaves me with the 3rd slot, once Chi Orbit is moved to the first tier to join the other “Chi” talents. As reluctant as I am to say this, and I MUCH prefer the suggestion that comes after this, I feel that we should see the return of Chi Explosion. HOWEVER, it needs to be strong (see: weak) enough, that it is not better than Whirling Dragon Punch for sustained AOE, nor better than Serenity for burst. It should be focused on being the flexible talent for fights with both single target and AOE, while not excelling in either. Whirling Dragon Punch can be adjusted to benefit from Mark of the Crane, so that it gets stronger with more AOE targets, furthering its strength as an AOE talent. Serenity could be adjusted so that it focuses more on single target, although it being a burst cooldown should be fine without tweaks.
My favorite idea for this tier of talents came from a very humorous discussion in Discord with several members of the community. This idea was that the 3rd slot becomes “Chi-mehameha Wave” modeled after Goku’s Kamehameha Wave from Dragon Ball. This would be a Chi “finisher” that used all available Chi, and gained power based on Chi spent, and sends forth a ball of Chi toward the target, damaging all enemies in its path. To further this homage to Dragon Ball, the base spell could be instant cast, and cost 1 Chi, further use of more Chi requires additional channel time, maybe 0.5s per Chi spent, up to the 5 Chi maximum, similar to how Goku spends time “channeling” his energy into his signature attack. Similarly, it could be modeled after his ultimate ability of Spirit Bomb, calling forth ball of Chi from the sky down onto the enemy, with the mechanic of increasing Chi spent by channeling longer, and the ball gaining size, damage, and AOE radius with more Chi channeled into it. This talent could/would replace Blackout Kick as it could be used to dump small amounts of Chi as an instant cast. As much as this may seem like a joke talent, it could absolutely be made into a feasible talent that fits the Monk’s theme while being visually and mechanically interesting.
- Tier 1 – Chi Orbit here in place of Eye of the Tiger
- Tier 2 – NO TOUCHIE
- Tier 3 – Nerf Energizing Elixir, fills energy bar OR Chi, not both
- Tier 4 – NO TOUCHIE
- Tier 5 – Small buffs to be closer to other defensives (or nerf Rogues)
- Tier 6 – Remove Hit Combo, Rushing Jade Wind for sustained AOE, Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger for extended cleave/single target, new ability for burst single target (Touch of Death?)
- Tier 7 – Define their roles, add Chi based “finisher” modeled after old Chi Explosion, or Goku’s Kamehameha Wave or Spirit Bomb
If you like the content that I, and the others at PeakofSerenity provide, then please support us through Patreon and PayPal. If you have any questions you can ask in Discord.
You can also check me out on Twitter, YouTube, and Twitch, where I stream all my raids as well as article writing and more.
Mr.Babs I understand why you call T2,T4 and T5 as nearly perfect. The truth though is that most of the classes in the game have 5 out of 7 options to enhance/alternate their dps rotation/damage and 2 out 7 tiers dedicated to utility/movement/defensives. On the contrary we,perhaps the most agile class in the game,have a whole tier focused on movement. Imho,Celerity can easily be removed and Tiger’s Lust go baseline. Also,as you also mention,we need back some “utility” to compete with competative classes like rogues,so jumping to our defensive tier I would also suggest to make diffuse baseline.T2 and T5 can “easily” be the same tier. Actually warlocks,on their defensive tier,have one movement talent,one passive and one active defensive. The CC tier is ok,almost every class has the same design there.
Monks,are the only class,that have 2 tiers that ACTUALLY affect their gameplay,speaking about T6 and T7 (the fact that a passive choise enhancing our mastery and not changing anything to our gamestyle, is the default on T6 is irrelevant). Monk talents are by far the worst designed tree in the game right now,always comparing them to other classes.
I️ don’t consider the number of dps increasing talent tiers to be a concern since the specs are balanced after talents are taken into consideration. It’s not like a spec with more dps tiers will automatically have higher dps, or even more talent diversity.
Chi-mehameha is an amazing idea. Also I find the Energizing Elixir only filling chi idea better, this keeps this talent a good choice to burst and also make it easier to use (it could also be renamed as “chi-brew” or anything like this, we actually need a beer based skill that’s not pure pvp). “Chi-mehameha” and “chi-brew” could the a little to strong (but fun) together however.
I think they already changed Leg Sweep to being a 3 second stun for Battle for Azeroth.
I NEED my Xuen back.
Just a quick opinion on tier 5 talents, I would much rather prefer to see the other classes (read rogue) to have their defensives nerfed a bit. Mechanics are there to be executed, not cheesed. 🙂
Re: the Tier 6 line: I’d really hate to see Touch of Death reduced to talent status. Maybe this is where Gale Burst goes instead? That way ToD remains baseline, and you can choose Gale Burst for the extra Burst damage.
I think that’s a fine idea as well, and probably the more likely one.